The Crimson Queen and Zeygram - A risky plan, Both, the Queen and Zeygram, play a big part in StolenLands story Options

[Schnitzelnagler]

Since success against both the Queen and Zeygram could lead to unpredictable consequences for the world, this is a decission that everyone should be allowed to vote on.

Comments are welcome as well.


Sidenote: We means a group of four people that have a plan wich might yield success.

[Argonus]

This is old news, pal >_>

[Jimbo Jambo]

I don't think this really requires a vote, since, for one thing, barely anybody still plays, but I'd also like to point out that Zeygram has half the willpower that the Queen does, so if the tactic works well on her...

[Stasus]

This is old news, pal >_>

trace, as you NEVER play anymore your influence thus dies and your opinions are null and void.

[Argonus]

So you're trying to kill the crimson bitch and zeggy AGAIN?

Well since the last time we killed crimson bitch the entire world ended I think we should kill zeggy first.

[Schnitzelnagler]

So you're trying to kill the crimson bitch and zeggy AGAIN?

Well since the last time we killed crimson bitch the entire world ended I think we should kill zeggy first.

I wouldn't say she was killed the last time.
Morgaine removed her from the world through a powerful spell, didn't she?

[Stasus]

I wouldn't say she was killed the last time.
Morgaine removed her from the world through a powerful spell, didn't she?

No, she died, she dropped something apparently. Also, right now we could kill the crimson queen first and get a better result because Zeygram hasn't been summoned yet. Zeygram was walking around for a long time the last time even long enough to break the seal of divinity. So he had greater influence. Unless that was just supposed to be the original name of his gauntlet. If we kill the queen now then raise zeygram and kill him immediately then that leads to a better result. If you think about the other times he was summoned then it makes sense. He was never out for as long as he was the last time because he was sealed away each time rather quickly. If the crimson queen alone was a major factor then he would have simply remade the world immediately.

[Jimbo Jambo]

Stasus, were you even there? Morgaine erased her, and I'm pretty sure she didn't drop anything. Also, since there's no story any more, I don't think it would matter if Zeygram was walking around or not.

[Jimbo Jambo]

Whoa, double post. How did that happen, and how do I get rid of it?

[Stasus]

Stasus, were you even there? Morgaine erased her, and I'm pretty sure she didn't drop anything. Also, since there's no story any more, I don't think it would matter if Zeygram was walking around or not.

Wrong, she supposedly dropped an item called "Zeygram's Heart" I should know since it's holder didn't hesitate to ruin my call to arm's post by Dancing while balancing Zeygram's Heart on his head. No one really took to that Idea anyway and a few were unable to grasp the concept at all Trace. Aside from that, you could notice the rest of what I said As to a new desirable result. Of course, the story is not going anywhere presently, so I'm just going to make my own. Since despite popular belief, I highly doubt the crimson queen will succumb to Silence and traps depending on her debuff resistance. The strongest silence cast on me was from a monster called "Chimera lord" and that lasted about 2 or 3 minutes in my previous maverick's form which was not geared towards magic resistance like the one I have now. That same silence would be significantly shorter since I can pretty much at the moment cut the effectiveness of curses and status ailments in half. Provided 50% actually means 50% this time. I can also reduce elemental damage decently.

However, I'm also not a level 65 boss so if she's anymore efficient at it than I am then that most likely won't work. At least not on it's own, and it's quite difficult to collaborate attacks with a trapper. Unless that trapper has taunt and even then any collaborative effort is severely limited to range and magic as melee would risk the collaborator's getting injured. Of course, the silencer could just spam silence continuously, but I'm wondering, why not do something that takes less effort, like barrier? Then it wouldn't matter if it's silenced or not. You could equip a Pandora's Eye for 15% and a cutlass for 5% which alone brings you up to 20% reflect negative then you could slap on a skeptic's coat for it's rather generous amount which I believe is another 20% if not 25% giving you a grand total of 40% reflect positive. Which is almost half of the time.

Of course this would come with drawbacks since adding extra reflect from spells would not be as effective thanks to a constant dispel and reflect positive. Pandora's eye also lowers magic resistance but the coat's effects should help to counter that at least slightly. You could also go for simple magic resistance, A missionary bracelet in that case, would work wonders. with a whopping 15% I also find, if you're planning to go this far, that toughness is an excellent choice. since that adds another 15% to elemental magic at around level 20 which would give you 30 with a bracelet on. Then you could add a coat or a steel armor since both of those have good elemental resistances. Steel armor also provides better than average physical resistance. Of course, it requires 40 strength for all this.

If you wanted to chance going for a quick kill then you would want to wear armors that improve skill based critical. This would cause the traps to do critical damage more often as I don't think traps really count as an attack as much as they do as a skill. Of course, trap critical may be a fixed stat but as far as I can tell, it's not been tested. This is also risky seeing how simply raising critical percentages do not ensure that they will happen. It only provides the increased chance that they will.

[Schnitzelnagler]

(...) At least not on it's own, and it's quite difficult to collaborate attacks with a trapper. Unless that trapper has taunt and even then any collaborative effort is severely limited to range and magic as melee would risk the collaborator's getting injured.

The trapper does have taunt and once used won't need it again, since traps are capable of dealing severe damage, keeping the enemy focused.

Of course, the silencer could just spam silence continuously

That is the plan.
Granted, silence does not last forever, even less with the Queen's Debuff resistance, yet killing her won't take forever either.

(...)why not do something that takes less effort, like barrier? Then it wouldn't matter if it's silenced or not. You could equip a Pandora's Eye for 15% and a cutlass for 5% which alone brings you up to 20% reflect negative then you could slap on a skeptic's coat for it's rather generous amount which I believe is another 20% if not 25% giving you a grand total of 40% reflect positive. Which is almost half of the time.

I assume you meant reflect, since barrier prevents melee damage.
Yes, reflect would be an option, but a bad one.
Pandora's Eye - 15% reflect negative; Healer's Mace (or even better Templar's Sword) - 15% reflect negative; Angelic Grown - 20% reflect negative; Templar short reflect - 50% reflect negative (My Level 41 Templar with skill 20 and a willpower of 83 does 41% already, so 50% seems possible) would result in 100% reflect negative.
There is a problem to that though, which isn't that intuitive when you never played a character that relies on traps.
Each time the queen is casting, she does not move and thus does not take damage, but regenerates.
Each time the queen heals herself, she does not only not take damage and regenerate, but gets additional healing.
When using reflect equipment, you can not use equipment beneficial for traps (critical bonus).

If you wanted to chance going for a quick kill then you would want to wear armors that improve skill based critical. This would cause the traps to do critical damage more often as I don't think traps really count as an attack as much as they do as a skill. Of course, trap critical may be a fixed stat but as far as I can tell, it's not been tested. This is also risky seeing how simply raising critical percentages do not ensure that they will happen. It only provides the increased chance that they will.

The trapper is using critical equipment and it does count and work just fine for traps.

The trick with the queen is managing to silence her and then casting a haste.
Silence and haste will grant that she keeps moving and moving fast.
Moving fast means she is going to suffer a lot of damage in a short time, thus dealing with her regeneration.

[Stasus]

"The trapper does have taunt and once used won't need it again, since traps are capable of dealing severe damage, keeping the enemy focused."

I don't see how this relates to what I just stated. I said that if taunt was used then it would open up the door to a collaborative effort since once taunted, a monster will attack who taunted it regardless of attacks used by others. Of course I've seen taunt fail before. Hope that goes well for you.

"That is the plan.
Granted, silence does not last forever, even less with the Queen's Debuff resistance, yet killing her won't take forever either."

Yes, but that's if silence is even effective at all. See, as I said, Stasus has about 50% debuff resistance and he's by no means some kind of final boss. The queen is a level 65 triad creature and not just a single triad, she's the result of three monsters fused together. And three rather strong ones. it's difficult to tell how well silence would work. Of course you can also get the same effect with high level stun, but of course, you're attempting to trap the queen so that won't work. Still, silence isn't the only option.

"Yes, reflect would be an option, but a bad one.
Pandora's Eye - 15% reflect negative; Healer's Mace (or even better Templar's Sword) - 15% reflect negative; Angelic Grown - 20% reflect negative; Templar short reflect - 50% reflect negative (My Level 41 Templar with skill 20 and a willpower of 83 does 41% already, so 50% seems possible) would result in 100% reflect negative.
There is a problem to that though, which isn't that intuitive when you never played a character that relies on traps.
Each time the queen is casting, she does not move and thus does not take damage, but regenerates.
Each time the queen heals herself, she does not only not take damage and regenerate, but gets additional healing.
When using reflect equipment, you can not use equipment beneficial for traps (critical bonus)."

Good argument, but you are also forgetting that you can make the queen reflect positive spells at a decent rate with a high level non-specialized reflect cast upon her. If you raised your reflect negative and her reflect positive then you would have a very viable strategy. while yes she would stop when casting you would also potentially reflect all of that 1k + damage back at her meaning regeneration wouldn't be all that helpful anyway since i doubt she can regenerate 1k in such a short time. You could also have support from a ranged attacker, namely Kushina who I've seen hit rather impressive amounts of damage with her bow.
Since As far as I can tell the queen lacks and "buff resistance" this could quite possibly work you would just need to make sure that the pressure stays on between pauses. Also, if she used healing or any buffs she has reflect positive it would just bounce right off and onto you or one of your supporters. In this regard people seem to forget how spells don't just have one use. I'm sure the counter box wouldn't be as hard with barrier cast on it. Yeah it would take longer but you also would take less damage which would make healing easier to manage. On the flip side, you could cast frailty on yourself if you had a high vitality build to improve your own counterattacks. Also to deal with her spell casting, you could cast slow on the queen. If she's not in range of you that would help to deal with some of the spell casting

In short, while reflect would have drawbacks, so does silence but either one could yield the desired result. If you think about it it's not impossible. I'd imagine that if strong enough, even dark wave could work. It's worked on The Unknown warrior. But of course it may be entirely different for the queen.

Anyway, have fun with that. Since it is after all, a game.

[Schnitzelnagler]

I don't see how this relates to what I just stated. I said that if taunt was used then it would open up the door to a collaborative effort since once taunted, a monster will attack who taunted it regardless of attacks used by others. Of course I've seen taunt fail before. Hope that goes well for you.

I think you misunderstood taunt.
Taunt deals "virtual damage" based on the skill level, similar to Dark Wave.
So, a taunt once does not grant that a monster won't switch targets. Even at level 25, taunt deals less than 3,000 virtual damage, but the Queen has 100 times that amount of hitpoints.
It is the traps damage that keeps her focused, if anything at all, since 3,000 damage is like 6 non critical traps.

Yes, but that's if silence is even effective at all. See, as I said, Stasus has about 50% debuff resistance and he's by no means some kind of final boss. The queen is a level 65 triad creature and not just a single triad, she's the result of three monsters fused together. And three rather strong ones. it's difficult to tell how well silence would work.

The Crimson Queen has a Debuff Resistance of exactly 53%, so (about) 3% more than Stasus.

Good argument, but you are also forgetting that you can make the queen reflect positive spells at a decent rate with a high level non-specialized reflect cast upon her. If you raised your reflect negative and her reflect positive then you would have a very viable strategy. while yes she would stop when casting you would also potentially reflect all of that 1k + damage back at her meaning regeneration wouldn't be all that helpful anyway since i doubt she can regenerate 1k in such a short time.

Long casting takes her three seconds. She has a total of 300,000 hitpoints.
Asides that I'm not counting on many people to be on-line, as StolenLands is mostly deserted nowadays.
One Silence Sorcerer is better than one Templar and a pseudo Templar.

In short, while reflect would have drawbacks, so does silence but either one could yield the desired result. If you think about it it's not impossible. I'd imagine that if strong enough, even dark wave could work. It's worked on The Unknown warrior. But of course it may be entirely different for the queen.

Silence does not come with any drawback.
And I have serious doubt that Dark Wave worked with the Unknown Warrior, as he has a Dark Magic Resistance of 100%, just like the Queen.

[Stasus]

There are always drawbacks saying there isn't any is asinine. How about for one that just as reflect would require someone to level a non-specialized reflect. You needed someone to train a pure silencer. Also, Silence is THE weakest debuff in the game. This would most likely be because it's also in some cases the most powerful. It can best every other spell, and it counteracts social skills. So it's easily resisted, Same goes for blind which is also incredibly powerful due to being very specific. Both spells are highly specific and are very weak. Dispel is powerful because, once cast it's effects will take priority over any other positive spell which makes any debuffs that more effective. Everything was designed with some kind of drawback. Silence will be resisted easily, you will need lots of mana potions to keep up with spamming it all the time and when resisted you will have to cast it again. If i'm not mistaken, she also has reflect and if it's reflected then that ruins your plan entirely. It's also very difficult, if not impossible to effectively know how long your spell will last so the only way to entirely limit her spell casting would be spamming which would also chance reflect. The cost of reflect would cost a lot of mana which would require potions. carrying capacity is affected by the Strength Stat and Mr silence specialist will be lacking in that department. Of course they could learn packing but do you know that it takes all 30 levels from 1-30 to max out a single skill you would have to throw in a few extra levels to get packing which would mean a longer wait and more effort put in which is a drawback as well. Even then, there's the cost of the potions all together. I don't know if you've noticed, but for the most part, potions are expensive. Even if you have a lot of gold you would have to get it right the first time to avoid taking a big hit to the wallet.


There's more I could argue here, but frankly I'm not in the mood for that anymore. So you go ahead and kill your queen and I'll do something else. I think that I made some good points for some interesting builds and I'm going to use those ideas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2b1D5w82yU Here, click this.

[Jimbo Jambo]

Stasus, I already checked the logs, and nobody picked up anything after the Crimson Queen was defeated, nor do I remember seeing anything, nor did anyone run around bragging "Hey look! I got Zeygram's Heart!" I suppose it's possible someone stole it, in which case I'm a little disappointed I haven't heard about it. Who has it, do you know, and what does it do?

Anyway, I don't think the effect silence has is really all that great, since it doesn't necessarily prevent a target from attacking, just from using spells, so it doesn't so much disable them as weaken them, just as weakness and sloth would (and it's really only useful against monsters with a high casting speed and high interrupt resistance, since otherwise, as is the case with nature spirits, even a slow character can easily interrupt them, and silencing might actually be a bad thing to do). Also, I thought the only real drawback to the blindness spell was that it couldn't be used by players....

I'm not overly concerned with the Queen's debuff resistance, since already I'm able to reliably silence followers, which have a 46% debuff resistance (9% less than the Queen, yes, but considering that I'm already able to overcome 46%, that 9% shouldn't take very long). Also, since my character is pure Int, I should have plenty of MP, and of course, manna potions as back-up (and yes, I'm lacking in carrying capacity, but I'm also carrying virtually nothing else, and we can distribute potions among us so we can carry more).

Indeed, the Queen does have a 3% reflect negative, and while getting silence reflected back onto me would definitely be inconvenient, it would by no means ruin the plan. Even with 0 willpower, silence can only last so long on me, and a couple of short neuts from our lovely priest will knock that off in a couple of seconds. Best case scenario: the Queen doesn't cast at all while unsilenced. Worst case: she nukes Derik with an area ice, encompassing me in the blast, in which case Cherry revives us (we can bring a couple of shards along to make this even quicker).

Oh, and thank God for my amazingly quick close-the-tab-before-video-loads reflexes.

[Schnitzelnagler]

(...)Silence will be resisted easily, you will need lots of mana potions to keep up with spamming it all the time and when resisted you will have to cast it again. If i'm not mistaken, she also has reflect and if it's reflected then that ruins your plan entirely. It's also very difficult, if not impossible to effectively know how long your spell will last so the only way to entirely limit her spell casting would be spamming which would also chance reflect. The cost of reflect would cost a lot of mana which would require potions. carrying capacity is affected by the Strength Stat and Mr silence specialist will be lacking in that department. Of course they could learn packing but do you know that it takes all 30 levels from 1-30 to max out a single skill you would have to throw in a few extra levels to get packing which would mean a longer wait and more effort put in which is a drawback as well. Even then, there's the cost of the potions all together. I don't know if you've noticed, but for the most part, potions are expensive. Even if you have a lot of gold you would have to get it right the first time to avoid taking a big hit to the wallet(...)

I would say that a single void bottle (100 capacity) should be enough.
I do not mind investing 400,000 gold, I spent more than that for fun to get some equipment enchanted.
It takes exactly 615 points to get a skill to maximum, which won't be required for packing. A simple sort empower does the trick.
The person to cast hasten on the Queen can cast neutralize on the Sorcerer when she's silenced by reflect just as easy. A matter of 3 seconds.

[Jimbo Jambo]

Too slow.

[Stasus]

Oh, and thank God for my amazingly quick close-the-tab-before-video-loads reflexes.

Too late!

Also, at "0" willpower a highly specialized silence would last a while. I think i might grab it for my next build. Since preventing spells is actually very effective. I am going back to a more solid Int Str Agi build since that's my favorite. I plan to have the highest DPS in the game when All's said and done.

[Jimbo Jambo]

Only counts if I actually hear the drums and see the face. I think so anyway. I should just learn to memorize the video code.

For a second, I was wondering why you put quotes around the zero. I just keep thinking of myself as having no willpower since I put no points into it. Even still though, whatever "a while" is, it won't stand up to Cherry's neutralize, especially is a long is cast beforehand. I could always just cast it on myself to see how long it lasts. Why aren't I doing that right now?

Also, going for a high DPS? See if you can buy Zeygram's Gauntlet from Fire. It also has an absolutely ridiculous parry rate which gets even higher with prof (get 30 repair too and equip the Death Shroud. You'll be absolutely invincible).

[Stasus]

Only counts if I actually hear the drums and see the face. I think so anyway. I should just learn to memorize the video code.

For a second, I was wondering why you put quotes around the zero. I just keep thinking of myself as having no willpower since I put no points into it. Even still though, whatever "a while" is, it won't stand up to Cherry's neutralize, especially is a long is cast beforehand. I could always just cast it on myself to see how long it lasts. Why aren't I doing that right now?

Also, going for a high DPS? See if you can buy Zeygram's Gauntlet from Fire. It also has an absolutely ridiculous parry rate which gets even higher with prof (get 30 repair too and equip the Death Shroud. You'll be absolutely invincible).

Counts if you click it. You have been "rick rolled". Or something.
Or maybe it doesn't count because I did it.

Also, since I now just read that. I will say this, Absolutely not. I am not and never will be interested in obtaining A Zeygram's Gauntlet. It's not a weapon for me. I like the hatred blade most because it best represents my style. Also, Death's Shroud is expensive. I'm not wasting money on that fancy rag.




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